BzzAgent Doesn't Handle Negative Buzz Very Well

I was quick to defend BzzAgent when Suw Charman criticized them recently:

More whining about bzzagent. (Even when they are doing good things like supporting Creative Commons.) I really think that people need to see bzzagent as just another way of advertising. Company gets the word out by giving away some products. If the people that get the products like them, they tell their friends. They also tell the company what they like about the product.  Do you really think that there are people out there that lie to their friends and people in the supermarket about how cool product A is, so that they can get more free products. Come on, people. Get over your righteous selves.

Some of what Suw said was right on.  Dave Balter, the founder of BzzAgent quickly and respectfully refuted what were incorrect assumptions in Suw's comments.

But, then he went on to call her a liar on the BzzAgent blog and make some pretty blanket and over-reactionary statements about bloggers ruining their own medium. I would have advised Dave to not do this.  Why? Now, for any company, I'd reccommend that you take ten breaths, eat an apple, simmer for a day, sleep on it and then respond to any blogger's criticisms about your company.  I certainly understand that negative criticism is hard to take as an entrepreneur working tirelessly to build a business. But, it has to be taken with a grain of salt at first. Once you let it sink in, then take from it what is valid, what you can change, formulate it into the company plan and feed that back into your business roadmap. Then, respond to the blogger what you plan to DO DO DO (if anything) about their issue/problem/advice.  This makes the conversation constructive and not a tit for tat shouting match.

You may find that you do not want to do anything constructive based on the feedback or that you can't address their concern right now based on resources or other priorities. Oh well. Move on.

Some people will just never be your customers. Let them publicly vocally criticize you. In the grand scheme of it, it probably doesn't matter. Most people read other people's writings with skepticism. And the free press may raise the awareness of your company to a potential customer or partner.

Eric Rice sums up well why I think Suw Charman (and a lot of other people) have a problem with what bzzagent does:

Suw and I talked about this BzzAgent/Creative Commons thing for a long time over IM. One thing she said to me was, "I suppose what I dislike is the encroachment of orchestrated promotion on serendipitous discovery." I clearly see her point and I naturally disagree. She hails from a journalistic background, while I come from advertising and mass communications and design.

Kevin at many to many also has a great analysis of this:

I think this is because BzzAgents crosses the line between the two moral syndromes that Jane Jacobs identifies in Systems of Survival - the Guardian syndrome, which is based on loyalty and social groups, and the Commercial one, which is based on honest dealing and collaboration with strangers.

Although, these quotes are more concisely and better stated than I could have said it, I think they sum up exactly how I feel about it too. And how people on both sides of the fence feel about it.  I am the farthest thing from a journalist. I am sure I could be one with the proper training and opportunity. But, It is not my motivation for blogging, nor my passion.

My passion is sales, is communication, is creating things. From that perspective, I understand the pains of creating something new and trying to commercialize it. It is a hard road to hoe.  And although bzzagent is way out of reach in terms of price for my company to utilize, the process of seeding buzz with the end purpose of making sales fascinates me. 

Being a salesman selling event promotional services and selling events (ie attendance)  to people, I have certainly faced these issues. I have lost respect from some friends because I was always inviting them to events which I was paid to market or that I was planning for a profit. I was inviting them because I wanted them there, but they didn't see it that way.  To them, as Kevin states, i crossed the line from group's assumption of loyalty to commercial dealing, which is supposed to be reserved for strangers. Or as Eric/Suw said, I crossed the line from a group of friends casually getting together to orchestrated promotion and profiting from friends getting together.

But, in the end my friends don't hold a grudge. They've opted out of receiving information about the events I am marketing.  We still hang out. Fortunately, my business network has now expanded and we are now being paid for simply providing the tools that help people market and organize their events. Soon, we'll simply be a DIY toolset that hundreds of large events use to market and organize their events online.

And that is the way I feel about BzzAgent: It is just another toolset in the marketer's toolbox. It is different than advertising on weblogs, or buying ads on television, experiential marketing, different than PR through blogging or contract blogging.  If it isn't for you, then don't bother with it. But, we shouldn't be chastising other people that find it works for them. Especially if you don't have all the facts about how the bzzagent system works.

Update: Gwai Lo has a very long post on this. He's even withdrawing his support of Creative Commons as a result of their partnership with BzzAgent and calls me rude for telling bzzagent detractors to get over their righteous selves.

Update II: This is blowing up. MetaFilter. Ad-Land. Suw's second post. Lessig.

Updaet III: Dave Balter responds. Much better response.

Update IV: Dave Balter apologizes. As the rest of this post says, Dave's initial reaction to Suw's criticism was an example of how not to handle criticism of your company in the blogosphere. The latter part of his reaction is an example of how to handle it correctly. In short, be concilliatory when you make a mistake or when you are out of line.  We'll see whether the people that are disparaging BzzAgent actually take Dave up on his request:

I would urge individuals who question our system to get a little further under the hood. While on the surface it may appear that we are just another marketing intrustion, with deeper digging you'll find that our concept is about consumer's taking control of marketing. We stress honesty in communications and ensure that individuals are open and transparent about their role. The goal is to ensure that the future of marketing is about a two-way dialogue. About listening and engaging with the consumer, instead of targeting and capturing them.

I'd hope they do. With the money that bzzagent is taking in from big brands, I suspect they'll be around for a while. They must be doing something right. If us bloggers want to figure out other ways of making money online, I think there are a few lessons to be learned by bzzagent.  Thus, my keen interest.

And next time, Dave, take a day to respond. Think of the pain you would have avoided if you responded after your initial frustration and anger came back down to normal levels.

I've woken this morning feeling that I've treated your initial post somewhat unfairly. (from Dave)

Update V: Kevin Marks retorts with some very elitist statements comparing bzzagents to Jehova's witnesses and Amway sales agents as well as people that enjoy manipulating others in the same sentence.

Suw's 3rd post with some constructive advice on how to change BzzAgent for the better. See how that works. A simple apology goes a long way towards a healthy conversation. There's also some constructive comments on the thread from an actual bzzagent.  I am glad there are some bzzagents chiming in to the conversation. Most of the detractors haven't gotten past the home page and the marketing material on the bzzagent site before they've started ripping bzzagent a new one.

Johnnie Moore succinctly summarizes what I said up top:

I've been self-righteous myself from time-to-time, it can be very satisfying in the short run to be so damn smart and so damn right. I know the pleasure of nailing up a forensic list of the 12 fatal flaws in other side's position. This is the joy of advocacy over enquiry. But in the end, I find respectful dialogue is more sustainable. (Learning instead of problem-solving).

Evelyn Rodriguez sees the *potential* goodness in bzzagent's mission:

The goal is to ensure that the future of marketing is about a two-way dialogue. About listening and engaging with the consumer, instead of targeting and capturing them.

 

Comments

[Joi Ito]

And he later removed the "somewhat" from the line quoted above...

[Kevin Marks]

Peter,
I completely believe in the power of the Long Tail, and that all people have interesting stories to tell. I don't think they need permission, guidance and a belif system from Bzzagents to do so.
I don't think being a manipulator is something to aspire to. I don't see how that makes me an elitist.

[peter caputa]

Hey Kevin. I don't know you or your background. So, I'll take back the elitist statement and apologize for that. Sorry. I am sure you are a good guy. And I am sure you don't need my affirmation.

Nonetheless, I think your statement that all bzzagents are manipulators is way way off. You're probably someone that says that we don't need sales people either?

As an entrepreneur, I know what it is like to try to launch a product. Relying on people to discover you is an absolutely foolish way to market your product.

The product has to be introduced to people that might find it useful. That has to be done by advocates. Some people are natural advocates. Giving them the product so that they'll possibly talk about it and provide feedback for improvement is the iterative process that needs to be done to build a business or launch a product.

If you can cite experiences you've lived through that prove me wrong on that, than I'll take back all I've said in defense of bzzagent.

And I'll rethink my marketing strategy. God knows I could use some help there.

Otherwise, I'll consider your post a load of drivel written by someone who hasn't lived through the process of a product introduction.

Long tail. Long pail. Talk to almost any entrepreneur about that. And they are trying to figure out how to surmount it. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from BzzAgent on how to introduce products more effectively. To discount it completely, as a product developer, marketer or entrepreneur is silly.

I suggest you register at bzzagent and apply for a few campaigns. You'll find that there process isn't much different than blogging:

- Learn about something.
- Tell people about it (if you want)
- report back what you've learned by sharing it.

[Kevin Marks]

I didn't say 'all bzzagents are manipulators', I said that the way it is set up it attracts people with that mindset. In the NYT article, in their reports and in mine and Suw's comments the supporters have admitted to less-than-open practices, so I don't think I am off base here.
The difference from blogging is that what we do in blogs is necessarily in public and open.
There is a natural human desire to get one over on others, and this is normally held in check by thoughts of reputation, when you know you will encounter the people again, or they will tell your friends. Blogging's form of collating all your writings in a single place helps trigger this reputation, and acts as a moderating force on discourse, as the convergence of positions observed in this thread shows.
However, it doesn't take much to get people to betray the social contract - if they are given permission to do so by an 'authority'.
Bzzagent is doing this by providing the alternative peer group of the reviewers of the agents' reports, and the bzz guides, creating an environment in which bending the norms of social interaction is encouraged.
I don't think they are necessarily doing it on purpose, and I believe Balter is sincere about his Honour Code, but that he has to make so much fo it is indicative of these issues.
Social interactions are very subtle. Finding good advocates is hard, and I don't believe Balter has a magic shortcut.

[peter caputa]

Great point, Kevin. The feedback that is provided by bzzagents to companies is hidden and therefore not open to public scrutiny. So, how could they not just "encourage" open-ness but possibly enforce open-ness?

[sq2ux]

[url][/url] [url=]vegas tri color poker chips[/url] <a href=>vegas tri color poker chips</a> [url][/url] [url=]poker shark online game[/url] <a href=>poker shark online game</a> [url][/url] [url=]home poker tourney build poker table in the online encyclope[/url] <a href=>home poker tourney build poker table in the online encyclope</a> [url][/url] [url=]online poker websites resource mac[/url] <a href=>online poker websites resource mac</a> [url][/url] [url=]poker with chips in nc[/url] <a href=>poker with chips in nc</a> [url][/url] [url=]las vegas centennial poker chips[/url] <a href=>las vegas centennial poker chips</a> [url][/url] [url=]tournament edition poker chips[/url] <a href=>tournament edition poker chips</a> [url][/url] [url=]best online texas hold em poker websiteplay poker for free[/url] <a href=>best online texas hold em poker websiteplay poker for free</a> [url][/url] [url=]casino casino algarve online casino poker casinoalgarve[/url] <a href=>casino casino algarve online casino poker casinoalgarve</a> [url][/url] [url=]boston red sox poker chips[/url] <a href=>boston red sox poker chips</a>

[4r3i5560h]

http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-testament-ammonites.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-testament-ammonites.htm]old testament ammonites[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-testament-ammonites.htm>old testament ammonites</a> http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/sucks-fucks-mature-sex-posing-blonde-cock-guy.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/sucks-fucks-mature-sex-posing-blonde-cock-guy.htm]sucks fucks mature sex posing blonde cock guy[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/sucks-fucks-mature-sex-posing-blonde-cock-guy.htm>sucks fucks mature sex posing blonde cock guy</a> http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-new-testament.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-new-testament.htm]old new testament[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-new-testament.htm>old new testament</a> http://hometown.aol.com/boys975646homose/gay-leather-spanking.htm [url=http://hometown.aol.com/boys975646homose/gay-leather-spanking.htm]gay leather spanking[/url] <a href=http://hometown.aol.com/boys975646homose/gay-leather-spanking.htm>gay leather spanking</a> http://hometown.aol.com/movies633185movi/acupuncture-chronic-pain-management.htm [url=http://hometown.aol.com/movies633185movi/acupuncture-chronic-pain-management.htm]acupuncture chronic pain management[/url] <a href=http://hometown.aol.com/movies633185movi/acupuncture-chronic-pain-management.htm>acupuncture chronic pain management</a> http://uk.geocities.com/men645boys/old-testament-cartoons.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/men645boys/old-testament-cartoons.htm]old testament cartoons[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/men645boys/old-testament-cartoons.htm>old testament cartoons</a> http://hometown.aol.com/movies633185movi/pain-management-clinic-florida.htm [url=http://hometown.aol.com/movies633185movi/pain-management-clinic-florida.htm]pain management clinic florida[/url] <a href=http://hometown.aol.com/movies633185movi/pain-management-clinic-florida.htm>pain management clinic florida</a> http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-testament-hop.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-testament-hop.htm]old testament hop[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-testament-hop.htm>old testament hop</a> http://uk.geocities.com/thumbs895gay/gay-sex-toys-sold-by-gays.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/thumbs895gay/gay-sex-toys-sold-by-gays.htm]gay sex toys sold by gays[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/thumbs895gay/gay-sex-toys-sold-by-gays.htm>gay sex toys sold by gays</a> http://uk.geocities.com/gay139teen/isaac-of-old-testament.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/gay139teen/isaac-of-old-testament.htm]isaac of old testament[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/gay139teen/isaac-of-old-testament.htm>isaac of old testament</a>

[mpy3pr3k]

http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-men-youg-wamen-sex.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-men-youg-wamen-sex.htm]old men youg wamen sex[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-men-youg-wamen-sex.htm>old men youg wamen sex</a> http://hometown.aol.com/boys975646homose/gay-hard-spanking-video.htm [url=http://hometown.aol.com/boys975646homose/gay-hard-spanking-video.htm]gay hard spanking video[/url] <a href=http://hometown.aol.com/boys975646homose/gay-hard-spanking-video.htm>gay hard spanking video</a> http://hometown.aol.com/movies62351man/personal-gay-webcam.htm [url=http://hometown.aol.com/movies62351man/personal-gay-webcam.htm]personal gay webcam[/url] <a href=http://hometown.aol.com/movies62351man/personal-gay-webcam.htm>personal gay webcam</a> http://hometown.aol.com/boys975646homose/gay-male-spanking-links.htm [url=http://hometown.aol.com/boys975646homose/gay-male-spanking-links.htm]gay male spanking links[/url] <a href=http://hometown.aol.com/boys975646homose/gay-male-spanking-links.htm>gay male spanking links</a> http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/sucks-fucks-mature-sex-posing-blonde-cock-guy.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/sucks-fucks-mature-sex-posing-blonde-cock-guy.htm]sucks fucks mature sex posing blonde cock guy[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/sucks-fucks-mature-sex-posing-blonde-cock-guy.htm>sucks fucks mature sex posing blonde cock guy</a> http://uk.geocities.com/thumbs895gay/older-men-fucking-young-men.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/thumbs895gay/older-men-fucking-young-men.htm]older men fucking young men[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/thumbs895gay/older-men-fucking-young-men.htm>older men fucking young men</a> http://uk.geocities.com/videos496sex/old-man-ass-bubble-blower.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/videos496sex/old-man-ass-bubble-blower.htm]old man ass bubble blower[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/videos496sex/old-man-ass-bubble-blower.htm>old man ass bubble blower</a> http://uk.geocities.com/thumbs895gay/2-older-men-fucking.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/thumbs895gay/2-older-men-fucking.htm]2 older men fucking[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/thumbs895gay/2-older-men-fucking.htm>2 older men fucking</a> http://uk.geocities.com/videos496sex/chicago-gay-bars-older-men.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/videos496sex/chicago-gay-bars-older-men.htm]chicago gay bars older men[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/videos496sex/chicago-gay-bars-older-men.htm>chicago gay bars older men</a> http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-men-and-sex-pics.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-men-and-sex-pics.htm]old men and sex pics[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-men-and-sex-pics.htm>old men and sex pics</a>

[nstsws8h]

http://hometown.aol.com/movies62351man/old-gay-porn-pics-and-movies.htm [url=http://hometown.aol.com/movies62351man/old-gay-porn-pics-and-movies.htm]old gay porn pics and movies[/url] <a href=http://hometown.aol.com/movies62351man/old-gay-porn-pics-and-movies.htm>old gay porn pics and movies</a> http://uk.geocities.com/gay139teen/old-testament-abbreviations.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/gay139teen/old-testament-abbreviations.htm]old testament abbreviations[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/gay139teen/old-testament-abbreviations.htm>old testament abbreviations</a> http://hometown.aol.com/homosexual848091/male-self-spanking-tales.htm [url=http://hometown.aol.com/homosexual848091/male-self-spanking-tales.htm]male self spanking tales[/url] <a href=http://hometown.aol.com/homosexual848091/male-self-spanking-tales.htm>male self spanking tales</a> http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/free-older-men-porn-galleries.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/free-older-men-porn-galleries.htm]free older men porn galleries[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/free-older-men-porn-galleries.htm>free older men porn galleries</a> http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-fucking-fat-gay.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-fucking-fat-gay.htm]old fucking fat gay[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/white983sex/old-fucking-fat-gay.htm>old fucking fat gay</a> http://hometown.aol.com/homosexual848091/spanking-clips-male.htm [url=http://hometown.aol.com/homosexual848091/spanking-clips-male.htm]spanking clips male[/url] <a href=http://hometown.aol.com/homosexual848091/spanking-clips-male.htm>spanking clips male</a> http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/oral-sex-done-to-old-men.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/oral-sex-done-to-old-men.htm]oral sex done to old men[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/oral-sex-done-to-old-men.htm>oral sex done to old men</a> http://ca.geocities.com/boys882german/femdom-movies-men-in-pain.htm [url=http://ca.geocities.com/boys882german/femdom-movies-men-in-pain.htm]femdom movies men in pain[/url] <a href=http://ca.geocities.com/boys882german/femdom-movies-men-in-pain.htm>femdom movies men in pain</a> http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/young-man-hold-pee.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/young-man-hold-pee.htm]young man hold pee[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/scissor615cute/young-man-hold-pee.htm>young man hold pee</a> http://uk.geocities.com/videos496sex/chicago-gay-bars-older-men.htm [url=http://uk.geocities.com/videos496sex/chicago-gay-bars-older-men.htm]chicago gay bars older men[/url] <a href=http://uk.geocities.com/videos496sex/chicago-gay-bars-older-men.htm>chicago gay bars older men</a>